The Pre-Existence of Christ (2)

Thank you Jim for picking out music that so wonderfully ties in to what we are studying and we are studying the the doctrine of Christ what the Bible teaches about Christ. I was just thinking as I was reviewing my notes just before coming out here this evening. I still remember the first time I fell in love with theology. When I was a student at Pete Montgomery College in the early 1970s I will never forget my first theology class and it was just when I heard the professor of the first class and for two years after that my heart just burned. I just loved what I was hearing and soaking in the the word of God and systematic theology taking each major doctrine and tracing it through the scriptures and I will never forget thinking that's what I want to do. I want to teach theology someday and before I finished Pete Montgomery the Lord had me in a pastor it and and that's where I've been ever since but I'll never forget also when I had the opportunity to go to Indiana and the Lord opened up the opportunity to do some master's training I decided to major in systematic theology and and it was just a joy I crammed a four-year master of theology program into seven years because of pastoring full-time while I was in school and it has always remained probably as far as things are concerned truth is concerned my first love is what the Bible teaches and I've never gotten away from that when I came here to Johnston Chapel I had opportunity to develop notes on all the areas of theology while I was taking that work in the 1980s and then started a chapel institute back in the early 90s and began to teach theology here realize the Lord was not going to open the door for me to do that anywhere else I thought I was doing here at church and so that has always been my love I love preaching but I also love just teaching theology and that's that's what we're doing on Wednesday nights we don't call it theology but that's what it is it is systematic theology taking the major truths of the Bible and tracing through all that the Bible teaches about those areas and systematizing it and that just fits me I mean you know guy who has all of these coffee mugs an alphabetical order that fits me it's systematic theology just fits me and so I just love it and enjoy the opportunity that you give me on Wednesday evenings to interact with you along these great themes of the scriptures and there is no greater theme than then Christ himself and so we've been looking at the last two or three weeks at what the Bible teaches about Christ and we're talking about his pre-existence the fact that he existed before he came to earth as a baby that his life did not begin in Bethlehem anymore than it ended at cross he has always existed so he existed before he came to earth his pre-existence is what we're talking about now we've looked at we've looked at how the how that is taught in the New Testament we looked at the testimony of John the Baptist where John the Baptist said in John 115 he is he is before me and he is higher than me and and thus before me indicating that Jesus existed long before John we've also looked at the testimony of Christ himself and John 6 he talked about being the bread that came down from heaven in John 8 he talks about before Abraham was I am in John 16 he talked about coming from the Father into the world and in John 17 he praised Lord give me the glory as I come back to you give me the glory that I had with you before the world was created and so Jesus himself speaks quite often about his pre-existence the fact that he existed before he came to this earth that's where we left off last time so we're going to pick up with the testimony of the apostles we've listened to the testimony of John the Baptist now the testimony of Christ tonight we're going to look at the testimony of the apostles two of the apostles the apostle John and the apostle Paul so let's begin with John's statement in John chapter 1 this amazing description of Christ himself John chapter 1 verse 1 in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God he was with God in the beginning through him all things were made without him nothing was made that has been made now this is a testimony of John the apostle not John the Baptist but John the apostle as to the Christ who he was and and even his his pre-existence now notice he describes him as the word there are there are two Greek words translated into our one English word word one of them the word rema has to do with the actual spoken word what what I'm doing right now speaking out a word but the other word logos has to do more with the word as a concept or as an expression of the thought and that's the word that's used here Jesus is the logos he is the expression of the very thought and mind of God so everything that God is everything that God thinks everything that God expresses is revealed in Christ he actually reveals the very mind of God himself but the interesting thing about pre-existence is in that first statement where he says in the beginning was the word now we've talked about this before this passage actually predates Genesis 1 1 because Genesis 1 1 says in the beginning and then steps forward into time in the beginning God created God did something in time John 1 1 starts with in the beginning and steps backward into eternity past in the beginning was the word and the key word is was it literally means that he was existing he was existing continuously in the beginning he was existing I think maybe I explained to you a few weeks ago about some of the Greek verb tenses the New Testament was written in the Greek language which is a very precise language and of course it's been translated into English thankfully but the Greek language is a very precise language and it has verb tenses that English does not have you can communicate the same thing in English which you have to combine different words to do it I think I talked with you a bit about the perfect tense well this is another tense of verb here that English doesn't have it's called the imperfect imperfect tense and what it literally means it has to do with continual existence in the past that's the imperfect tense the Greeks had a particular verb tense that would describe that that would describe continuous action in the past that's the tense that's used here in the beginning was the word which literally and by virtue of the tense that use means he was continually existing in the past in the beginning Christ was continually existing in the past so you start with the beginning and go backwards into eternity past and he was continually existing which is a strong testimony to his pre-existence and actually his eternal existence and then of course he goes on to say not only was he continuously existing in the past in the beginning he was he was with God face to face with God which indicates they were enjoying fellowship that whole time throughout eternity past and then he was God indicating his nature he is distinct from the Father because he was with him face to face with him but he is one in essence in nature and we'll talk about that a little bit later when we talk about the deity of Christ this is a strong verse also on on his deity the fact that he is God okay so that's what John has to say about his pre-existence any comment or question there before we move the couple of passages at Paul or Paul teaches this okay so in the beginning the word was continually existing he was already existing when the beginning started okay he was already there all right Philippians chapter 2 let's look at one of Paul's statements of the pre-existence of Christ that he existed before coming to earth Philippians chapter 2 verse 5 in your relationships with one another have the same mindset as Christ Jesus and then he describes the kind of mindset that Jesus had that he's telling us we need to have toward one another and it's described in this beautiful statement of Christ becoming man okay and what that meant for him there is a progression of steps downward for our Lord in these verses and it begins in verse 6 by saying this who being in very nature God some of you will have translations say who being in the form of God and the idea really the form is the the outward expression of an inner nature that's what the word means so it really does have to do with what the inner nature is and then how that's expressed but the emphasis of the word really is is on the the outward expression of that inner nature and so what he's talking about here is that Christ existed in the very nature of God which expressed itself outwardly how would the nature of God express itself outwardly what would it look like in heaven there's a word that we typically use to describe that and it is his glory he would he would exist in glory in bright awesome shining light his glory you know when the glory of God is seen in the Old Testament people can't look on it they can't even can't even look that in the face and so that's what that's what Jesus what's what's talking about here Jesus who was externally manifesting the inner nature of God in all of his glory okay that's where we start okay so that's that's Jesus in heaven who being in very nature God or very the form of God did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage and the idea is he did not consider that position and the demonstration of it the outward glory that he was showing in heaven he did not consider that something that he had to hang on to at all costs and use defensively to establish his position okay I want you to know who I am and I'm gonna show it all the time he didn't think that way but instead verse seven rather he made himself nothing and this is where the downward progression starts it starts with him exhibiting the same glory that God the Father does in heaven and then he decides he will make himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant a same word here the outward expression of an inner nature okay he takes on the form or the nature of a servant he begins to look like the outward expression matches the inner nature of a servant okay how did he do that being made in human likeness okay now we're talking about the incarnation now we're talking about him coming into human existence and being found in appearance as a man he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death even death on a cross and so once he is here among us as a human in human existence he humbles himself he doesn't flex his muscle to prove who he is defensively and say I'm gonna show you my glory so you you will ever doubt the who I am you'll know I'm God he doesn't do that but he humbles himself and he becomes obedient to the Father obedient all the way to death and not just any death the worst kind of death imaginable even death on a cross and so this just keeps going down and down and down the decline if you will the downward progression of our savior as he becomes one of us and then dies for us but it all starts in verse six with a position equal to God in nature expressed in the same glory that God the Father has and that is before he humbles himself and becomes man so that's where Paul's talking about his pre-existence he was in nature God in the form of God but the time frame is that he existed that way before he became nothing before he emptied himself and became a man so this is his pre-existence okay clear statement that Paul gives to that effect any comment question there all right look at this other passage that Paul gives us in Colossians chapter one verse 17 verse 16 has described Christ the creator all things have been created through him and for him and he's obviously speaking of Christ verse 15 the sun is the image of the invisible God the first born overall creation so he's created all things in verse 16 number 17 he is before all things and in him all things hold together so he created all things but he also existed before all things and I think that has kind of a twofold meaning it incorporates both time he existed previous to those things he created but the word before also has to do with position he's higher than he is more important than above all in rank you might say so he is before all things in time and he is also above them in rank I think it includes both of those but the idea that he is before all things that were created obviously means he existed prior to creation so Paul talks about his pre-existence as well testimony the apostles is is very clear all right questions comments Walt I think I think I could say that what you're getting into now is is the whole issue of the eternality of God is eternal nature and there are those who would disagree with that statement because of the way God works in time but but God I think you can say as far as his nature is concerned and his relationship to the progression of time in eternity he is an ever he is ever present in the in the present or how did you say that yeah well yeah and God yes God operates within time but he is not bound by time in his nature and I think that's an important distinction and so when God says I am before Abraham was I am he's not speaking in terms of the past he speaking of the terms in terms of his self-existence and his eternal nature which which yes is an eternal present if you will I am yeah so I think I think I could say that yes but with the with the qualifier that he does act within time yeah okay all right any any other questions or comments all right let's look at a couple of passages that imply pre-existence these don't come right out and state it like like the ones we've looked at but look at Matthew 23 verse 37 the last week of Jesus' life he's teaching in the temple or actually he's he's yes he's teaching in the temple by Matthew 23 and he says in verse 37 Jerusalem Jerusalem you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you how often I have longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings and you were not willing I think this passage at least implies not a direct statement but it implies his pre-existence prior to his his becoming man because he's just talked about the prophets you kill the prophets stone those sent to you and he says how often I would have gathered you I longed to gather you but you were not willing and the implication is at least that it was Jesus seeking to gather them through the prophets the very prophets that Israel killed Jesus was working through them and he continues to work in his ministry and obviously that statement takes in his whole ministry too he sought to gather them together as a hen does her chicks and they were not willing to do that so it implies pre-existence that Jesus was working through the Old Testament prophets and then another one is 2 Corinthians 8 9 2 Corinthians chapter 8 and verse 9 Paul is actually teaching the Corinthian church about giving and he uses Christ as an example he says in verse 8 I am not commanding you but I want to test the sincerity of your love by comparing it with the earnestness of others and then he gives the example of Christ in verse 9 2 Corinthians 8 9 he says for you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ that though he was rich yet for your sake he became poor so that you through his poverty might become rich so this passage describes Christ as being rich then becoming poor when was Jesus rich was he ever rich in his ministry and his life here on this earth no no in fact his very inference into this world was in the the poorest of circumstances the most humble of circumstances and there's no indication that he ever had much of this world's goods at all remember what he said the son of man does not have a place to lay his head said the birds of the air have nests the foxes have holes to go in I don't even have a place to lay my head I don't have a home of course he grew up in a home in Nazareth but he gave all of that up when he when he entered into his ministry and so he was not rich here and obviously even the sequence of things he was rich before he became poor when did he become poor when he came here right when he came here when he was born that's when he became poor so the example of Jesus is he had all the riches of heaven prior to coming to this earth he gave them up in order to become poor become human for us and then he is he is now of course back in heaven but he was rich he gave all that up to come here to save us that's his poverty all right comments or questions about the new testament teaching of the pre-existence of Christ okay if Christ existed before his coming to earth as baby to become a man so that he might be our savior if he existed before that we would expect to see some evidence of that in the Old Testament and sure enough we do there are a couple of different ways that we see Jesus in the Old Testament not just by way of prophecy of what's going to happen with his coming but we actually see him we actually see Christ in the Old Testament manifesting himself in the Old Testament and the first the first way he did that was through what is called the angel of the Lord Christ appears as the angel of the Lord that's the exact wording is very important here it's not just any angel it's not an angel when when this angel appears and by the way angel simply means a messenger angels are messengers sent by God to do his will his bidding this is a special messenger this is not just any old angel this is not an angel this is the angel of the Lord and he is referred to in those terms in the Old Testament this is a special messenger of God and we're going to see that when this angel appears in the Old Testament he is God he is deity he is divine because he is worshiped and he is called God he is called the Lord but it's the same person as the angel of the Lord and so let's see how all that works out the first thing we want to notice this angel appears in many passages there are a number of passages where he shows up we're just going to look at three of them to prove the point or at least demonstrate that this particular angel the angel of the Lord is a divine being and then we're gonna see a little bit later that you can identify which member of the Trinity he is he is indeed the second person in the Trinity the son Christ but let's first of all note his appearances in the fact that this is not just an average angel this is an unusual angel the special messenger of God first of all Genesis 16 he appears to Hagar Hagar is Abram's wife Sarah is handmaiden domestic servant if you will and there's a lot of difficulty between the two of them because of Ishmael's birth and so Hagar under the oppression that she's experiencing from Sarah flees she runs away okay verse seven the angel of the Lord notice the term here not an angel the angel of the Lord word the is key word the angel of the Lord found Hagar near a spring in the desert it was the spring that is beside the road to shore and he said Hagar slave of Sarah where have you come from and where are you going I'm running away from my mistress Sarah she answered then the angel of the Lord told her go back to your mistress and submit to her the angel added I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count aha first clue this angel claims to do something miraculous that only God can do and he says I will do this notice he does not say God will do this the Lord will do this he says I will do this I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count now in in the new testament you have angels coming to deliver messages from God this is what God says this is what God will do the Lord will do this but this angel says I will greatly increase your descendants oh okay verse 11 the angel of the Lord also said to her you are now pregnant you will give birth to a son you will name him ischmeal where the Lord has heard of your misery he will be a wild donkey of a man his hand will be against everyone everyone's hand against him he will live in hostility who are all his brothers now look at verse 13 she gave this name to the Lord who spoke to her you are the God who sees me for she said I have now seen the one who sees me okay she's talking about someone she's actually seen and that's the angel of the Lord she calls him the Lord she calls him God and she she calls him the one who sees me and knows all about me in other words and verse 14 that's why the well was called Beur la Hyroy it is still there between goddess and bear it so she calls him God she calls him Lord capital L capital O capital R capital D which is the Old Testament way of saying it's the name Jehovah the highest name of the covenant God of Israel and so Heygar interacts with the angel of the Lord and it's obvious that he's a divine being he's not just an average angel all right any questions about that before we look at a second example well yeah yeah you have to remember we're talking about the Trinity here okay the angel of the Lord the special messenger of Jehovah says God the Father has heard you the the Lord has heard you he's not discounting who he is because he does accept her worship we'll see how important that is later but he does refer to the Father also he is the angel the Lord the special messenger of the Lord who is called God and is also called the Lord but he will also reference his father as well I think that's I think that's what's happening there good question okay Exodus chapter three the story of Moses this is a very familiar story Moses in the burning bush Exodus 3 now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law the priest of Midian and he led the flock to the far side of the wilderness and came to horror of the mountain of God there the angel of the Lord appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up now notice who appears to him the angel of the Lord appears to him but notice how the conversation progresses verse four when the Lord saw that he had gone over to look God called to him from within the bush now who's in the bush who is appearing in the bush the angel of the Lord who calls out from the bush God seems to be what he's saying is that the angel of the Lord is God verse five do not come any closer God said take off your sandals for the place where you're standing as holy ground then he said I am the God of your father the God of Abraham the God of Isaac the God of Jacob at this Moses it is face because he was afraid to look at God okay verse two makes it clear it is the angel of the Lord who appears to him but now it is God who is speaking to him not not talking about two different people we're gonna see as we go along that is it is the Lord who is speaking from the fire it is the angel who has appeared to him from the fire they're one and the same they're not two people in the fire there's one person in the fire referred to as the angel of the Lord also referred to as God and verse 14 skip down to verse 14 God said to Moses there's a long conversation here but God said to Moses I am who I am this is what you to say to the Israelites I am has sent me to you obviously the same name that Jesus uses of himself in John 8 and so there is a correspondence here the angel of the Lord is God speaking okay one other passage and that is Samson's parents in judges chapter 13 judges 13 judges 13 verse two a certain man of Zora named Manoa from the clan of the Danites had a wife who was childless unable to give birth the angel of the Lord appeared to her and said you are barren and childless but you're going to become pregnant and give birth to a son now see to it that you drink no wine or other fermented drink that you do know that you do not eat anything unclean you will become pregnant have a son so forth verse six the woman said to her husband went to her husband and told him a man of God came to me now she doesn't understand yet who he is but notice her description of him he looked like an angel of God very awesome I didn't ask him where he came from and he didn't tell me his name but he said to me you will become pregnant and have a son and gives him the other instructions now if you skip down the verse 15 Manoa said to the angel of the Lord we would like you to stay until we prepare a young goat for you basically they request the Lord to appear again send this man again and the angel of the Lord does show up a second time Manoa says to him verse 15 we would like you to stay until we prepare a young goat for you the angel of Lord replied even though you detained me I will not eat in of your food but if you prepare burnt offering offer it to the Lord Manoa did not recognize that it was the angel of the Lord and notice what happens next then Manoa inquired of the angel of the Lord what is your name so that we may honor you when your word comes true he replied why do you ask my name it is beyond understanding the NIV has with a footnote or wonderful the Hebrew word can be translated wonderful why do you ask my name it is wonderful okay hang on to that then Manoa took a young goat together with the grain offering and sacrificed it on a rock to the Lord and the Lord did an amazing thing while Manoa and his wife watched as the flame blazed up from the altar toward heaven the angel of the Lord ascended in the flame now the angel of the Lord is doing miraculous things again ascending back into heaven you can't help but think of what Christ did at the end of his ministry seeing this Manoa and his wife fell with their faces to the ground when the angel of the Lord did not show himself again to Manoa and his wife Manoa realized that it was the angel of the Lord and noticed what he concludes in verse 22 we are doomed to die he said to his wife we have seen God now the Lord does nothing to discourage that apprehension the Lord does nothing to discourage that that awareness or that conclusion that the angel of the Lord who appeared who gave them this information and also said his name was wonderful and then ascended in the flame when they concluded we have seen God God doesn't God doesn't say no no no no no no you're wrong this was just an angel and what we're going to see if we get this part of night is that every other instance in the Bible of someone who tried to ascribe deity to an angel they were corrected anybody who tried to worship an angel no no no no no no don't worship me worship God you worship only God but here this angel accepts worship he accepts a sacrifice made to him he ascends in the fire which indicates that sacrifice is made to him and then they conclude surely he is God and they're not corrected because of that okay so this is a clear indication that the angel of the Lord is a divine being he is God okay now the question is which member of the Trinity is he is he the father is he the son is the Holy Spirit and you probably already know where I'm going this angel can be identified as Christ in the Old Testament primarily because of the comparison of what we just read in judges 1315 to 18 with Isaiah 9.6 Isaiah 9.6 and that verse is on the screen for you prophecy of the Messiah prophecy of Christ for unto us a child is born that's his humanity to us a son is given that's his deity so combining both he is a son given from the heaven from God but he also as a child born the two natures of Christ and the government will be on his shoulders the government of David he will be on David's throne raining over his and he will be called wonderful counselor mighty God everlasting father prince of peace same Hebrew word used here for the term used to describe the angel of the Lord in judges 13 and so it would appear not only from the things that he does but it would also appear from this likeness of titles that this angel is Christ another way to see this is that this angel never appears after the conception of Christ there are lots of angels that appear in the New Testament but never the angel of the Lord okay now we don't have a lot of time and I want to make sure I get to this because some of you will go home and start tracing this and you will find well wait a second there is an expression the angel of the Lord in the New Testament John was wrong well if I could defend myself tonight let's turn to Matthew chapter one Matthew chapter one where that expression does occur but there's a reason for it after Christ is conceived what has happened to Jesus he now takes on what human form he has a human body and so this angel will never appear again because Christ will now eternally be tied to a human body in the Old Testament God himself came down in the form of the angel of the Lord but now that Christ is conceived in the womb of Mary the angel of the Lord does not appear again angels appear but not the angel of the Lord look at Matthew chapter one and verse 20 but after he had considered this an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said Joseph son of David do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife you're familiar with the story an angel of the Lord some translations have the I think the King James may have the angel of the Lord but in the in the original language the Greek there is no definite article there is no the it is an angel of the Lord I pulled out my King James version again just to make sure and it does have the angel of the Lord but it also has a footnote and says literally an angel of the Lord I mean they recognized the scofield people who put the notes in recognized that you could get the wrong impression but the translation of that word the because the word B is not in the Greek it is an angel of the Lord is not the angel Lord is an an angel of the Lord this is a normal ordinary angel this is not God this is a normal angel I mean that that's pretty impressive but this is not God now verse 24 some have said no wait a second John notice what this says when Joseph woke up he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife ah there it is the angel of the Lord but this is not a title the angel of the Lord this is what all the Greek grammars call the anophoric use of the definite article which means the angel of the Lord is just saying this is the same angel we had back in verse 20 okay we've got an angel a normal ordinary angel now the angel that I said back in verse 20 came that same angel says this or does this he woke Joseph up and commanded him to take Mary home or he did what the angel Lord had commanded him so the angel Lord is not a title here it is not a specific reference to God it is just the angel we were talking about back in verse 20 and there are three other verses where this is the same way four other verses actually Matthew 219 it is an angel of the Lord that speaks to Joseph to in in a dream in Egypt it's okay to take his son back take the family back to Nazareth and then three times in the book of Acts an angel of the Lord appears but it is not the angel of the Lord it is not the same thing and so put all that together in the Old Testament the angel of the Lord does things that only God can do he is worship and accepts worship that only God can accept and he has the same name that is referenced of the Messiah in Isaiah 9.6 that angel never appears after the conception of Christ because Christ now is tied to a human body and does not come and go as the angel of the Lord and the real clincher is this this angel accepts worship whereas other angels forbid it to examples before we close tonight in Revelation this is what I was referencing earlier Revelation chapter 19 verse 10 angels are pretty awesome beings and they're pretty amazing to see evidently because of passages like this we know that Revelation 19 verse 10 an angel has spoken to John in verse 9 and verse 10 it says at this I felt at his feet to worship him but he said to me don't do that I'm a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus worship God for it is the spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus so don't worship an angel angels are pretty impressive they're awe-inspiring but when John falls down at his feet to worshiping the angel says stop that don't do that I'm an angel I'm a fellow servant I'm a I'm a messenger of God I'm not God you only worship God and the same thing happens over in chapter 22 verses 8 and 9 I John and the one who heard and saw these things and when I had heard and seen them I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me but he said to me don't do that I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all those who keep the words of this scroll worship God very clearly the Bible teaches here that angels are not to be worshiped there are other places where that's seen too like in the book of Colossians angels are not to be worship angels do not accept worship anybody tries to worship an angel in his presence angels say stop that quit that don't do that you're not supposed to do that your worship only God okay so in the Old Testament in Genesis 16 in in Genesis 13 the angel of the Lord accepted worship so obviously that angel must be God and appears to be God the son son of Christ which basically what we're saying is we're seeing Jesus before the incarnation we're seeing him active in the Old Testament as the angel of the Lord that's Christ before he came down to earth as a baby in Bethlehem now we don't have time or times up but next time we meet we will talk about how Christ also appears in the Old Testament at least on three occasions as the Lord Jehovah and it is quite clearly Christ himself because there's a new testament reference back that identifies that person as Christ and we'll get to that next time we don't have time to develop that tonight okay let's pray father thank you for the magnificence the awesome majesty and glory of our Savior the Lord Jesus thank you father that he is great enough and awesome enough to have existed before he was born as existed from all eternity father that is the one that we worship tonight we worship you we worship your son we worship your spirit we worship you as the triune God but we are mindful that Jesus gave up the riches of his eternal existence with you became poor became one of us so that he could die for us and so we thank you for the very thing that we've studied tonight means that he came to be our Savior thank you for him for his willingness to do that and it is in his name that we pray amen