The Nature of Angels (3)

Okay, Pop Quiz tonight. All right? You should always be looking for past or not singers choosing of hymns that have to do with the topic. The first song we sang tonight were angels in that song and if so, where? Did anybody catch angels or reference to angels and that stand-up for Jesus? You don't even remember what we sang by now, do you? You know what? While we were singing that second song, I was looking it up in my bulletin because I couldn't remember either. There is a reference to angels in that song, probably not directly, but in the second verse, talks about the trumpet call Obey Fourth to the mighty conflict and this is glorious day. Yithat or Min now serve him against unnumbered foes. Unnumbered foes, probably speaking of angels because in the very next verse, he talks about standing his strength alone. The arm of flesh will fail you. You dare not trust your input on the gospel armor. Ephesians 6, the armor and the armor is for what kind of foes? We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against spiritual wickedness in high places, right? Prince Pallad is powers. Angels. So angels in that song, what about the last song we sang? Tell me the story of Jesus, where were angels there? Telling of his birth. Yeah, tell how the angels and chorus, saying as they welcomed his birth. So Jim Sneaky, you got to watch him. And so just a little fun when we're singing, each Wednesday evening, be looking for the subtle clues that Jim has had his thinking cap on. And he's matching songs with the study for the night. He's great at doing that. Okay, we are studying angels and we've been talking about their nature and we probably will at least tonight, maybe even next week as well. And when we talk about the nature of angels, we've talked about the fact that they are personal beings. They're not just influences or forces. They are personal beings. Then we talked about the fact that they are spirit beings. So we talked about the personality of angels. Then the properties of angels, they are spirit beings. They do not have a body. They do not have gender. Once they were created, they will exist forever. They will live forever in the future. So we saw that. And then we saw that they do make special appearances. So although they are spirit beings that do not typically have a body, they can appear to people in bodies. And we saw several things about their appearance last week. Generally, they appear in the form of men, sometimes in the form of unusual men, men that have an unusual splendor and glory about the shining, like lightning in Matthew 28, even their clothes, white of snow in Matthew 28. And then sometimes we saw that in heaven, they appear as living creatures, very almost bizarre looking creatures with different kinds of faces and so forth. We'll see a little bit more of that when we get to the living creatures in Ezekiel 1, if we were able to get to that tonight. And then we saw that because of their appearance, when they do appear with that unusual appearance, they have a tremendous, forceful effect on people, sometimes great emotional agitation fear and sometimes even physical lack of composure, falling to your face, falling to the floor and so forth. So we talked about all that last week. Now we're going to jump in this week. We're still talking about the properties of angels. Tonight we're going to begin with the $64,000 question. This is the question. Everybody wants to know about angels. In fact, my concern is that after we find the answer to this question, you may not come back anymore on Wednesday night, because it's all you want to know about angels, right? And that is, do angels have wings? That's the real question. So let's talk about that. Do angels have wings? Well, the common perception is that they do have wings and certainly in the Bible, they are sometimes pictured with wings, a couple of instances. And a lot of, we're going to be jumping around a lot tonight. So we will turn to some of the passages, but we're going to put a lot of them on the screen too. So I want to start with Isaiah chapter six, that'll be on the screen for you. Where Isaiah catches this magnificent vision of the glory of God in his temple. And part of that vision, verse two, above him, were Sarah theme, each with six wings, with two wings, they covered their faces with two, they covered their feet with two, they were flying. And then down in verse six, it says, then one of the Sarah theme flew to me. Notice the motion flew to him with a live colonist hand, which he had taken with thoms from the altar. Now, remember that name, Sarah theme. It's the only time in the Bible they appear. We're going to come back to them later. And also the next group of angels that we see in Ezekiel chapter one called Cherubim in Ezekiel one. In the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance, their form was human, but each of them had four faces and four wings. Their legs were straight, their feet were like those of a calf, gleaned with burnished bronze under their wings. On their foresight, they had human hands, all four of them had faces and wings. These are in some translations called Cherubim and they also appear in the book of Revelation. So at least two different kinds of angels, they will come back to the categories and names and so forth for angels later. But my point here is that sometimes angels are presented in the scriptures as having wings. And at other times, they are said to fly. For instance, Daniel 9, we looked at this verse before. Daniel 9, when I was still in prayer, while I was still in prayer, go back to that other verse in Ezekiel. Barry, I'm sorry, I forgot this one. When the creatures moved, I heard the sound of their wings like the roar of rushing waters, like the voice of the Almighty, like the tumult of an army. When they stood still, they lowered their wings. So very graphic pictures of not only the appearance and the use of wings, but even the sound of wings. Okay, now Daniel 9, 21, sometimes angels are said to fly. While I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice, which would be three o'clock in the afternoon. Revelation 14, 6, then I saw another angel flying in midair. And he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth, to every nation, tribe, language, and people. So sometimes angels are pictured with wings. Sometimes they are pictured as flying. So do angels have wings? Certainly appears that way, doesn't it? But wait a second. Didn't we make the point earlier that angels are spirit beings? wings are physical structures that are needed for some type of body, either for planing or for flapping and flight, and that kind of thing, to move or support or lift a physical body. So if angels are spirits, then do they really have wings? What's the answer? What's the answer to our conundrum here? Okay, all right. Something we get a little more discussion out of that, Blaine, you answered real quickly, very well. Yes, when angels appear in human form, at least sometimes they appear to have wings. Not all the time, can you remember an appearance of an angel in the Old Testament when he did not have wings? When they appeared like any other human being would look with Abraham? Yes, with Abraham, when he saw the three strangers and they came along and he fixed a meal for them, he and Sarah did, and he just thought they were ordinary people, and it wasn't until unusual things began to happen that he realized these were divine visitors, and one of them was actually pre-incarnate, pre-prie, in the appearance of Christ, in Carnation, meaning his time here on earth. So there are occasions where they appear and don't have wings. So why do they sometimes appear with wings? And sometimes they don't, and obviously as Blaine said, the only time they have wings is when God allows them to appear in a physical body to be able to be visible to people here on earth, as spirit beings, obviously they don't have wings. They don't need wings. That's a physical part of a body. But when they appear, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. And I think the answer may be that wings are symbolic of a couple of things, and wings are seen in order to communicate these things about angels. When they appear in physical form, there are literal wings, no question, the descriptions in scripture are that way, but the reason why they have those wings at times is to communicate special powers that angels have. And that is that they can move quickly, swiftly, from one location to another, and they can move without having to walk on the earth. Obviously as spirit beings, they can move anyway in those ways, but when they appear in human form, sometimes God communicates through wings that they have swift, fast movement through the air, from one location to another. By the way, just to go back to Isaiah 6, remember there's a very symbolic use of wings, with the six wings of the seraphim, with two they covered what? Their faces, they're in the presence of God, that seems to represent humility, worship before God. They cover their fate. With two, they cover their feet. What do you think that may represent? Holy ground? Holy ground? Could well be, yes, they're on holy ground, and may also indicate their function, the Lord uses them as ministering spirits, they serve, and the feet, obviously representing activity, serving. And then with two, they flew, indicating motion and ability to move quickly. So the wings seem in that picture of angels to be symbolic of various elements of their interaction with God. They are in reverence of him, they're holy, they're standing on holy ground, but yet they're sent to serve him, and they do his bidding quickly. That really seems to be the emphasis of the wings there. How did you have a question? True. That's a good point, and it's obvious in Genesis 18 and 19, when God did not want Abraham at least initially to know that they were any different from people, they looked just like people. But in cases where God wants to communicate their greatness and their special ministry, then they don't look like us. They have wings. And so that's a good point. Just one of the verse that indicates there are other symbolic words that are used with angels, Hebrews 1, 7. In speaking of the angels, he says, he makes his angels' spirits and his servants flames of fire. Now the word spirit is the same word for wind, and some translations will use the word wind, and then fire. So you've got two symbols here of angels. Are angels literal winds? No. Are they literal flames? No. The point is the symbolism here. Angels have, they respond to the Lord quickly, fast. They move quickly like a wind from one location to another, and they serve him earnestly, fervently, passionately, their fire, their flames of fire. And so there are times where symbolic language is used to describe either the movement or the ministry of angels or their relationship to God in his presence. And so wings are not always there when angels appear, but sometimes they are. When they are, they seem to be communicating special things about the properties of angels. Okay? Any other questions about angels' wings? All right? Let's talk a bit about the spiritual condition of angels and their spiritual condition. What we're talking about here is the fact that there are two categories of angels, and they're categorized by their spiritual condition. Okay? Two categories. The first category of angels, spiritually, is there are holy angels. Holy angels, or we might call them good angels, somehow, sometimes how we refer to them. Look at Mark chapter 8, verse 38 on the screen. If anyone is ashamed of me in my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his father's glory with the holy angels. I use this so much. Sunday night, I may have lost my battery here. Holy angels, but they are also called, not only holy angels, they're called elect angels. For simile 521, I charge you in the sight of God in Christ and the elect angels. Okay? Now that doesn't mean that they were chosen necessarily before the foundation of the world. Sometimes when the word elect is used, even if believers, it describes the result of being in relationship with God. You are set apart, you are elect in the sense that you are now one of his, and you are eternally one of his. So sometimes that word communicates more the result of salvation. In this case with angels, it does indicate that they are God's angels, they're holy angels, good angels, and they can never lose that capacity or that status. So holy angels are sometimes called that. They're sometimes called elect angels. They're sometimes simply called the angels of God. John 151, for instance, Jesus is talking to Bartholomew or Nathaniel. He says, very truly, I tell you, you will see, heaven opened the angels of God, angels of God, ascending and descending on the Son of Man. So that's one category of angels, holy angels, or good angels. The second category spiritually is evil angels. Obviously, the opposite, evil angels, or sometimes called unclean spirits, Luke 8.2, for instance, also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases. Sometimes they are in chapter 11, verse 24, notice, when an impure spirit, so evil spirits or impure spirit comes out of a person that goes through arid places seeking rest, does not find it. Then it says, I will return to the house I left. Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there, the final condition of that person is worse than the first. So evil or wicked spirits, impure spirits. And then sometimes these evil angels are simply coupled with their leader called Satan his angels. For instance, Matthew 25, verse 41, then he will say to those on his left, depart from me. This is the judgment of Gentile nations on the earth at the end of the tribulation. Depart from me, you who are cursed into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Now all of those, impure, wicked angels, evil angels, devil and his angels, they all refer to a one category of angels, and that is the evil angels, or we sometimes refer to them as demons. Right now we will spend the latter part of our study down the road a little ways on demons. And we'll talk more about them then, but it's important to understand kind of here at the beginning of our study that there are two categories of angels. We typically think of angels only in the sense of the good angels, gods angels, holy angels, but there are also evil angels. We typically think of them as demons, but they are angels. They're bad angels, but they are angels. Okay, so that's the two categories. Let's take a moment to look at the cause of this division. How did this happen? How did there come to be two categories? How did they get divided into two categories? Well, there was something obviously that had to happen in order for that to take place, and we'll talk more about that later when we get to the section of our study on Satan and demons. But it is clear that originally all angels were created holy. And the reason we know that is why. Everything created was good at the end of the six days of creation, right? Genesis 131. God saw all that he had created, and remember we saw from Job 38, angels were created on day one, before the creation of the world. Angels were created in sang for joy when God created the earth. So at the end of the six days, angels were ready to create it, and God looks at everything is good. So there has been no rebellion, no evil angels yet. So all of them were created good, but something happened to form this division between holy angels and evil angels. And we'll again look at this in more detail later. Just want to kind of give you the big picture tonight. And that is there was a rebellion in heaven led by an angel who had a prominent position given by God named Lucifer. And that angel drew a number of other angels into this rebellion within. Revelation 12 seems to indicate one-third of all of the angels were drawn into that rebellion. And they were cast out of heaven, not permanently, and that doesn't happen to the middle of the tribulation, but they rebelled against God and leave their place of holiness. The reason for that rebellion is described very simply in 1 Timothy 3.6. Kind of in a backhanded way, this is a list of qualifications for spiritual leaders in the church, and one of those is he must not be a recent convert why, or he may become conceded or filled with pride and fall under the same judgment as the devil. So that indicates to us that whatever happened to the devil when he rebelled against God had to do with pride. Remember last week we looked at Isaiah 14, we'll look at that much more extensively later. We saw that if that is referring to the devil there were those five I will statements. I will, I will, I will climaxing with the one I will be like the most high. I'll take over from God. And that is the evidence of his pride. So Satan fell through pride and took some angels with him, and that was the cause of this division. Now let me say a word about the continuation of this division because what happens now that these angels are divided into two categories, can they transfer from one to the other, can good angels fall and can evil angels be redeemed and become good angels? The Bible seems to indicate that once that decision was made, once that rebellion was led and angels decided who side they were on, that seems to be permanent for both categories. In other words, good angels will remain good angels throughout eternity. Bad angels will remain bad angels throughout eternity. One of the ways we see that is what we saw earlier in 1st 10 5 21 and that is that the good angels are called elect angels and that very concept of election is permanent. It lasts forever. It includes in it the very idea of security. And so elect angels, the idea there is that they are God's angels forever. They will never, they will never lose that position. When it comes to the evil angels, they also seem to be fixed in unholiness. Theologians use that, typically use these words. Angels were first of all created in unconfirmed holiness. In other words, they were all holy to start with but that was unconfirmed. They were left a choice whether or not to obey God. Once they made that choice, they were confirmed. Either in holiness or unholiness. Good angels or evil angels. Now with evil angels, the reason why we believe that none of them will ever be redeemed, none of them will ever change from being evil angels is a couple of different things. Number one, there is no record of any angel ever being delivered from sin in the scriptures. There is no mention of any redemption for angels. But the clearest reason why the scriptures seem to indicate that no evil angels will ever become good angels is found in Hebrews 2. So would you look at Hebrews 2 for a moment, this one we're going to look at for just a moment. Hebrews 2. Verse 14, since the children have flesh and blood, children there are the children of God, people in the family of God, back in verse 10, bringing many sons and daughters to glory, the piner of their salvation is made perfect to what he suffered. So those are believers there. Since the children have flesh and blood, he too, Christ, shared in their humanity so that by his death, he might break the power of him who holds the power of death, that is the devil, and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. Now look at verse 16, for surely it is not angels, he helps, but Abraham's descendants. In other words, it's not angels, but it's people that he came to save. That's the reason he took on flesh and blood so that he could become like people, like us, not angels, but us. So verse 16 seems to make it very clear and it goes on to say in verse 17, for this reason he had to be made like them, like people, Abraham's descendants, fully human in every way in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make a tonement for the sins of the people. No mention of a tonement for angels, in fact the whole point is that he came to save humans, so he took on a human body. There's no indication, in fact there's pretty clear statement in verse 16 that it does not include angels. So there's no redemption for angels, no salvation for angels, which makes it pretty clear that once that choice was made in that rebellion against God, the good angels were confirmed in their state of holiness and they remain holy throughout eternity. Evil angels who followed Satan as rebellion are confirmed in their unholiness and they remain unholy, evil angels for eternity. Okay, one other thing I want to dip into here about this spiritual condition, the two categories, but I've been doing a lot of talking, I haven't given you much chance to ask questions, any questions at this point. I'm impressed that you can remember what I said last week. Tell me, I really am. I'm impressed anyone can. I can't remember what I said last week. So yes, God did form man rather than speaking him into existence. Angels, he spoke into existence. He spoke, they came into existence. We got a little bit to go on, John is asking, what about a timeline, how long did they remain holy and when did they, when did this rebellion take place? A little bit of a timeline which can't nail it down specifically. Obviously, at the end of Genesis 1, they are all good because the six days of creation, everything's good. But by the time you get to Genesis 3, the temptation of Adam and Eve, Satan is doing that, so he's already fallen. So somewhere between Genesis 1 and 3, this rebellion happens. It coincides with it in the sense that it had to happen before the fall of man, but how long before the fall of man we don't know. I would say it's boom, boom, boom, because Adam and Eve are created when you get to chapter 3 and they're sinned, they don't have any children yet. So not much time has passed. So we're narrowing it down a little bit more there couldn't have been a lot of time between the creation of man and his fall because they don't have children yet and there's already been the fall of Satan. Lucifer has led his rebellion and they've fallen, but that happens between Genesis 1, 31 and Genesis 3, 1. And there's not a lot of time there. It's not like there's a billion years there. Adam and Eve would have had a lot of children in that time. So there's not much time there. Okay? Good question. Any others? Yes, Sheila? After the choice was made, did Satan make any attempt to further influence good angels? There's no indication that I can think of that he did. I don't know that there's any indication in scripture that he made an attempt to get a few more angels on his side. I don't think so. Not real sure about that, but I don't think so. Certainly goes after humans for sure. Okay, let me just make a few comments about the conflict because of this division. Obviously, all angels, first of all, created holy, then there's this rebellion which indicates creating a which leads to creating another category of evil angels. And since there is this division, it came about as a result of a rebellion by Lucifer who would become Satan against God. And that battle has never stopped in the sense that Satan still fights God and Satan and his angels fight the good angels. There's some evidence of that in scripture. We've already seen it a little bit. Daniel 10, 13 will be on the screen. Remember when Daniel was praying, God had sent an angel to communicate the answer prayer. The angel gets to him and says, but the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me 21 days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes came to help me. That's the reinforcements. And because I was detained there with the king of Persia. And then in chapter 12, in verse 1 of Daniel, at that time, speaking of the tribulation time, at that time, Michael, the great prince who protects your people. So Michael is an angel whose role, whose ministry is to protect the nation of Israel. So there's a lot of spiritual warfare going on. And angels are involved in that, even in international affairs, there's battle between good angels and evil angels. We're close to it. We're in Hebrews, if you still have your Bible open. So look over it. Look at Revelation 12. Revelation 12, I've referenced this passage several times and we'll look at it again, no doubt. But it fits in this discussion in Hebrews 12. This is an amazing chapter. Very symbolic sign appears in heaven in verse 1. There's a woman clothed with the sun, moon under her feet crown, 12 stars on her head. That probably refers to the nation of Israel, 12 tribes of the nation of Israel. She is pregnant. She delivers a sun. That's the Messiah Christ. And there's this enormous, in verse 3, enormous, red dragon. It's tale, verse 4, swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth that seems to be a symbolic representation of Satan's rebellion. This dragon will be identified in a couple of verses as Satan. So it seems to refer to his rebellion, taking in a book of Revelation sometimes angels are referred to as stars. So taking a third of the stars with him, that's how we get the fact that he probably took a third of the angels with him. Verse 5, this woman, the nation of Israel, gives birth to a son, male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. Obviously that's the Messiah, that's Christ. Verse 6, the woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God where she might be taken care of for 1260 days. That's half of the tribulation where Satan is trying to persecute through the anacryst, the nation of Israel. Now look at verse 7, then war broke out in heaven. War broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down that ancient serpent called the devil or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth and his angels with him. Now if you follow closely what's happening in the book of Revelation, this is midway point in the tribulation. So although Satan lost his place along with the angels who followed him, lost his place in heaven until this event, Satan still has access back into heaven. And again we'll see more of this when we get to our section on study of Satan. He is the accuser of the brethren. One of the examples is Job where he actually appeared in the presence of God and accused Job of serving God for impure motives. So that Satan is able to do that now. But on this occasion in the middle of the tribulation, Satan will be flung out of heaven and he will not be able to go back anymore. He's flung to the earth. He's kicked out for good. And it's very interesting that it is at this point that the antichrist shows his true colors. Goes into the temple, proclaims himself to be God, turns his wrath on Israel and seeks to do away with Israel in the last three and a half years of the tribulation which leads me to believe that the antichrist may actually be indwelt by Satan himself in the latter half of the tribulation time. Certainly controlled by him. So this conflict is very real and this conflict is still going on midway through the tribulation time until this one final cataclysmic battle Satan is thrown out for good. And he is so angry that he takes his anger out on the nation of Israel in the latter half of the tribulation time. The conflict that's created because of this division in the two categories of angels good and evil angels, this conflict is ongoing. It's going on today as I speak and it will go on until the middle of the tribulation. Did you know that conflict also involves us. It also involves us and one of the answers to the quiz tonight on the songs that Jim chose. One of those songs the first one stand up stand up for Jesus referred to the conflict that we have with unnumbered foes and they were to put on the armor. Okay, that's a reference to Ephesians 6. Remember this Ephesians 6 verse 10 finally be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood but against the rulers against the authorities against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. That's a clear reference to demons. So that's where our battle is. Our battle is not against flesh and blood. Behind a lot of what happens by way of temptation and a lot of bad stuff strife and so forth between people Satan is doing his dirty work. You know behind all of the battles that happen in families where families are torn apart and so forth Satan is at work. He is our enemy. It's not each other. Our enemy is a spiritual enemy not a fleshly enemy. And so he is very much at work in not only battling other angels but battling us as well. Okay, so that's there's a conflict there that continues because of this division between holy angels and evil angels. All right, I think that's all I want to say about the spiritual condition of angels. There's been a lot of time on it but it's important to recognize these two categories because it sets off a lot of what happens in the Bible as far as the battle between these evil and good angels. Yes sir. Could be could be there was Satan was Lucifer actually jealous of God's creation of man could be I mean the scriptures don't really indicate that clearly but it might have been a part of his pride might have been a part of of his pride that he couldn't take another creature getting the attention of God. All right, we've got about five minutes before the cubs are on TV. Oh excuse me five minutes before we are supposed to be done. So in that right chuck. Let's talk in the last few minutes about the powers of angels. What kind of power they have? The source of their power first of all where angels do have power and we'll see some of the evidences of it probably next week but where does it come from? The source of their power obviously is God. It is granted by God. Angels recognize this. They recognize that God is the source of their being and thus the source of their power. If you are still in Revelation look at Revelation chapter four. Revelation chapter four. One of the scenes in heaven worship scenes in heaven verse eight. Each of the four living creatures had six wings was covered with eyes all around even under his wings. Under its wings day and night they never stop saying holy holy holy is the Lord God Almighty who was and is and is to come. Whenever the living creatures give glory honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne who lives forever and ever than the 24 elders join in in verse 10 and notice what they say in verse 11 you are worthy our Lord and God to receive glory and honor and power for you created all things and by your will they were created and have their being. Even the angels in their worship of God ascribed to him and his power they're very being the fact that he has all power and he created them and that's the reason why they're even in existence. So angels recognize the good angels recognize certainly that that God is their creator and has given them whatever power that they have. Let me also say this not only is their power granted by God their power is governed by God. In other words angels cannot exercise their power without God allowing them to and God is in control of what they do. The scripture seemed to indicate that angels power is exercised only by God's will. Clearly in the Bible when angels are sent to do something it is clear that God is the one who's sending them with the authority to do something. God is the one who sends angels to Abraham and Genesis 18 and the two angels apart from the Lord the two angels go down to Sodom and Gamara and and warned Lot and his family get them out of town while God reigns down fire in Brimstone on that city. So it's obviously that God has sent them they are under his authority under his will. You may recall another story that we'll look at some more next week and that is in 2nd Samuel 24. When David numbered the army of Israel when he was not supposed to the only reason for numbering the army of Israel was to calculate military strength going into a battle. This was not a case of going into battle. This was just a case of David sitting back and saying I want to figure out how big army I got and and God knew that that was pride and so God judged the nation of Israel over David's sin and an angel of the Lord was sent to strike people with a plague but he's clearly sent by God under God's authority. Angels don't just jump out to do things on their own. They're always sent by God under his authority so their their power is governed by God. Even in the book of Revelation when angels are the ones opening up the seal judgments blowing the trumpet judgments pouring out the bowl judgments they're doing so at the command of God. Just read through the book of Revelation you'll see that God is one in control and the angels are doing his bidding. So their power is not exercised on their own whim you know when they want to flex a little muscle their power is always exercised and governed by by God and it's clear also that God sometimes holds them back. That story we were talking about earlier in Second Samuel 24 where the angel is carrying out this plague against against Israel and the Bible says when the angel came to a certain point that God said enough stop and the angel stopped. Obviously God restrained him from going any further Satan is limited he'll be limited even in the tribulation time as to what he could do he was limited with Job as to what he could do he could only attack Job as much as God would allow that to happen and there are other evidences of that in the Bible where God is in control of the exercise of power on the part of the angels they're all under God's good and gracious control. So angels are not just flying around saying I think I want to do this I want to strike this or do this to someone you know angels are ministering spirits that are sent to do God's will God's bidding their power is under his control. So we have nothing to fear from good angels we have a lot to fear from bad angels and we'll talk more about that again later but there you know there's a there's a verse in Jude that says even the good angels do not on their own initiative try to cast out demons or speak disparagingly of demons but they will always say the Lord rebuke you that's God's business which we'll get to that later it's an interesting concept God never never has given man the privilege of ordering demons around and you hear a lot of that today but those folks need to read book of Jude you start messing with demons and you're on dangerous territory you better let the Lord do that yeah sure that's certainly a factor you know John is asking God has all power why does he have to use angels to accomplish his will is it for our benefit and certainly that's part of the answer that's part of the equation that sometimes it seems to be for our benefit but sometimes angels are ministering to us when we don't even know about it in ways in the Bible that people don't see and don't know so sometimes it's not for our benefit at least as far as I know about it but at other times it is you remember the story in second Kings maybe chapter six I can't remember for sure where Elisha is giving all the secrets away of the Syrian King to the Israelite King and so nothing that Syria can do is working and Syria says we got to get in and get this guy and so he sends an army down to get Elisha and Elisha's servant is all frantic about this army and Elisha says those that are with us are more than those that are with them and Elisha's servant said what do you mean look at this army out here and Elisha prays God open his eyes so that he can see and God opens this servant's eyes and he sees the angels protecting them and surrounding them okay so in that case you've got both it was happening and they didn't see it Elisha knew it so God could have protected the Muthangels and they would never known it but in this case he allowed them to see it so sometimes yes for our benefit sometimes God just does it because that's the way he wants to do it I guess okay our time's up