Demons & The Occult

On Wednesday evenings we have been doing a Bible study on what the Bible teaches about angels and because there are so many subcategories of that kind of study it's taken us a while to make the progress we have. We talked a lot about good angels in the beginning of our study and then we began to shift our focus to evil angels. Talking first of all about Satan the leader of the evil angels and then in recent weeks we've been talking about the demons. We are rounding the last turn and headed toward the home stretch of our study. We'll probably do a couple of studies on what we're going to start tonight, the occult. Then we'll wrap up maybe two or three studies just on some overall perspectives and how to have victory over evil forces. Satan and his demons will spend a little bit of time on that as well. I do want to spend at least a couple of weeks and I hope not any longer than that. This is not an area I want to really camp on very long. I don't think it's very beneficial to do that but we do need the warning about the occult because it is one of the outstanding marks of this age, the increasing attraction to occult practices. That is promoted in a lot of different ways. 20 years ago it was finding a resurgence in the new age movement and that's kind of died down not quite as much front burner issue, although it has become a lot more part of the fabric of our culture. That was really just a redressing of old occult practices like channeling and tapping your inner potential and realizing your essential god likeness and those kinds of terminologies were being thrown around. That was all just a redressing, a repackaging of old occult practices from many centuries ago. We will talk a little bit about some of the other cultures that were involved in that kind of thing. I do want to spend a little bit of time on it at least so that we understand what it is and we understand the warnings in scripture. That's really the key. We need to understand what we are facing and what it looks like and then the warnings in the Bible against becoming involved in any form of the occult. The reason why I don't want to dwell on this for too long is because some people get so fascinated with studying about the occult that they get intrigued by it and then kind of interested in it. Before long you find them trying to dabble in it some and it may have started as a very innocent and pure interest that has led down a wrong path. I certainly don't want to do that but I want to begin tonight with a definition of the occult. I don't want to squelch any of your questions. We will take those questions but I want to try to move through some of this fairly quickly. When you are talking about the definition of the occult you have to begin with the name. The name occult. It actually comes from a Latin word occultus which is a form of a Latin verb ocular which basically means to cover up or hide. That's the real root meaning of the word occult to cover up or hide. What we are talking about here is hidden, secret, dark, mysterious, concealed. The term occult is used to describe any kind of phenomena, any kind of occurrences that transcend our senses in the realm of nature and so we would refer to them as supernatural. Above the natural senses and the ability to explain things on a natural level and the art of dealing in those areas, the practice of dealing in those areas and any phenomenon which have to do with those areas would fall under that broad category of the occult. Now the description of the occult, the occult has been practiced since the very earliest of religions all the way back in the book of Genesis you will find evidence of it. So from the very beginnings of man's history as he began to spread throughout the world and may even go back as far as Genesis 5 with Nimrod and the development of the civilization in Babylon. We know from archaeology and historical records that most ancient Babylonian societies were deeply ingrained in the occult and that passed on down to other societies since then including the Greek and Roman societies which were very deeply involved in occult activities. But there are three main categories of the occult and they are all found in the Bible so we are going to define them briefly, discuss them and then give some biblical references. The first kind of occult activity is called divination, divination and basically divination means to foresee or for tell the future or to see someone's fortune if you will. The ability to foresee or for tell the future. Now sometimes that comes through interpreting signs or omens and sometimes it comes through the actual use of a demon that influences a person in any number of different ways and we will talk about some of those. But that person forecasts or foretells what they see about the future and of course there's a lot of hoax in a lot of this too. There's a lot of this is just playing hoax and people praying on others' interests in the supernatural. But there's also a lot that really is genuine demonic activity and so it is real it does happen and it can happen either through the interpretation of omens and signs and those kinds of things or actually a demon controlled medium or person who purports to tell the future but is under demonic control. Now there are several forms of divination in the Bible at least five maybe six so let's just look at a couple three references and I'll show them to you. The first one is a very interesting reference to the king of Babylon in Ezekiel 21 where Ezekiel says for the king of Babylon God saying this for the king of Babylon will stop at the fork in the road. In other words when he's going to attack you try to make a decision as to what to do he's going to stop at the fork in the road at the junction of the two roads to seek an omen and notice he's going to use three different means to do that. He will cast lots with arrows he will consult his idols he will examine the liver. Those are three common old testament ways of divining or either using an object or a demon controlled person to for tell the future. So the king of Babylon wants to know which way to go to attack and who to attack first so he's going to use these these three ways the first one was to use sticks or in this case arrows to to be able to tell what decision to make and most Bible scholars believe that this was probably arrows that were marked with certain name places of places the king might attack or routes that he might go. And he would reach in and take two of them and whatever was in his right hand was the sign as to which way should go or who he should attack. And so that was that was some kind of omen consulting idols these were what the Old Testament calls terra theme their small household idols Jacob and Rachel took Rachel's fathers household gods with the old testament. And so they also told gods with them when they left left laban and that's what they were they were little little gods that she could actually hide under her saddle and and little terra theme but they would be set up and used to for tell the future in some way. And then examining the liver this is an interesting one they would take the liver of a goat or some other animal and much like palm readers read the lines and contours of palm they would actually read the shape or contours of the liver and purportedly be able to tell the future that way so those those were three of the forms of divination in the Old Testament another form was to actually communicate with the dead. And an example of this I need to qualify that in just a moment but let's just for now say communicate with the dead example this is first Samuel 28 eight when Samuel goes to the witch of indoor and we'll look at that passage a little bit more in just a bit. Saul disguised himself putting on other clothes at night he and two men went to the woman consult a spirit for me he said and bring up for me the one I name. We'll talk a little bit more about that later but this was an effort to reach someone who had died to reach their spirit and in actuality that's never what happened except in that one case for God allowed it to happen we'll look at it again in just a moment but basically what would happen was the witch of indoor in that story or some kind of mediums and kind of spirit this would would be a little bit more. Would would be working with a demon the Bible calls him a familiar spirit an evil spirit a demon that was in conjunction working in conjunction with that particular medium and and they that demon and others would impersonate people impersonate dead loved ones and so forth you didn't reach anyone beyond the grave. People's spirits don't come back and we're going to see in that particular instance God allowed Samuel to actually come back and I don't want to say too much about that yet but but typically that's not what happened this the spirits don't come back people spiritually to go to heaven or to hell and so they don't come back and and and and so people in all of that that's all of Hollywood fabrication or if it is reality it's demonic so this medium or which would not contact the actual person they would contact a demon that would impersonate that person and we'll see a little bit more later about how that works. So that was one of the ways of divination. A fifth way was through astrology. Isaiah 47 13 all the counsel you've received has only worn you out Isaiah is mocking the way Israel has tried to gain guidance about the future. Let your astrologers come forward those stargazers who make predictions a month by month let them save you from what is coming upon you Isaiah is mocking the attempt of the people of Israel to find out what's going to happen to them in the future rather than consulting God they're going to astrologers to read the stars and try to find some kind of sign in the heavens that will give them information about what to do in the future. That's a form of divination in the Old Testament and there are those same kind of forms today as well as others. There are some others that we we don't hear of in the Bible like tarot cards palm reading, divining rods or pendulums that stop over part of the body where illness may be or something like that the use of objects that are worn by people or used by people to try to for tell the future dreams and visions that may be guides to the future that's a very dangerous area to get involved in. So there are lots of different present forms of divination as well. Let me just say this we'll go to a couple of scriptures in a moment the Bible prohibits divination in any form no matter what form it takes whether it's one of the ones mentioned in the Bible or ones that are common today the Bible absolutely prohibits any involvement in trying to learn the future by any of those means because when you take the Bible, because when you take that step you are stepping into the world of demonic influence. So how do you learn about the future? God has told us all he wants us to know in his word. The rest of it we don't need to know probably would be better off not knowing. So we just seek God and his wisdom and his counsel through his word that's all we need to know. We don't need to go any further to try to go any further is is going to get you in deep weeds you're going to be trouble. So the Bible prohibits that in all forms. Now before we go to the second kind of occult activity any questions or comments about divination. Yes sir. Okay that that was a little different the wise men using the stars they were men who study the heavens and by the way there's a difference between astrology and astronomy. Astronomy is the scientific study of the movement of the stars and the heavenly bodies for various reasons astrology is the attempt to try to discern hidden meanings about the future and that's a very different thing the wise men were looking for a sign or a supernatural exhibit of God in the heavens is what they evidently saw that would lead them to the Messiah and that was different. They were not seeking the future God showed them through a miraculous occurrence that he was leading them to the land of Israel and there's a lot more going on there with their understanding of the prophecy of Daniel who was in Persia. There's a lot more going on there as well but God used a supernatural spotlight really in the heavens to guide them and that was that's different. Okay other questions good one. Okay the second form of the occult is simply magic magic now please don't misunderstand me here I'm not talking about all magic there is a very innocent kind of magic which is just slight of hand. And so the kind of magician that for instance Eric Richardson would be Eric will be very upfront tell you this is all just slight of hand it's just trickery there's nothing nothing of the spiritism kind of magic involved in what someone like that would do. So I'm not talking about that what I'm talking about is the actual accomplishment of results beyond human power through a recourse to supernatural power it's usually called dark magic is what it's called. And the idea is that you are actually appealing to supernatural powers to give you supernatural strength or wisdom or ability to do things that are beyond the natural realm and that is very different than just the slight of hand kind of magic. We're talking about incantations that actually accomplish miraculous things we're talking about the casting of spells the calling on spirits to heal or to inflict disease on someone we're talking about curses we're talking about voodoo we're talking about the actual use of supernatural powerful beings to accomplish things that are beyond the normal human realm. And the Bible clearly recognizes the reality of that the Bible clearly recognizes the reality of it and attributes it to demonic forces remember the the the magicians of Egypt and the magicians of Babylon they were nothing more than occult practitioners who actually tapped into supernatural power although it was evil. The apostles dealt with it in the book of Acts in Acts chapter 8 remember they dealt they dealt with a sorcerer by the name of Simon and then in Acts 13 they dealt with another sorcerer Paul did by the name of elements and so they dealt with with these kinds of people and when Paul got the emphasis remember he a lot of people came to know the Lord and one of the things they they got rid of was their book. And magic items that they used to get in touch with the spirit world look at these two verses in Acts 19 many of those who believe now came and openly confessed what they had done a number who had practiced sorcery brought their scrolls together and burned them publicly the different incantations and spells and chance and so forth that they would do to get in contact with demonic powers they did away with those they burned them. When they calculated value the scrolls total came to 50,000 droplets large large some but there was an example of actual moving away from detaching yourself from the occultic powers when these people became believers the occultic power of magic will be very real in the tribulation time we've looked at this before with the Antichrist second testimony is to verse 9. This verse also on the screen for you the coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with our Satan works he will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie. Now the lie is that the Antichrist really is God that's the lie he is he is Satan's puppet on planet earth mimicking Christ himself twice called anti Christ in the word in the Bible. So there will be lots of ability on the part of the Antichrist and his cohort the false prophet to be able to do miraculous things through demonic power through Satan's power these displays of power through signs and wonders that serve to continue the deception is to who the Antichrist is and the best example of that is found in Revelation 13 where the Antichrist who evidently suffer some kind of mortal head wound is brought to the end of the world. So he went back to life and then has a statue of himself put in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem and the false prophet gives that statue the ability to speak that's part of what is described there in second test to that kind of miraculous power signs and wonders that serve the lie that promote the lie that the Antichrist really is God's ruler. So there are many questions about that form of the occult. Okay. The third kind is more direct. This is just called spiritism. Spiritism is the use of a medium which sometimes called which in the Old Testament a warlock it would be the male form but some person who makes contact with the spirits of the deceased. Actually they do not make contact with the spirits of the deceased they make contact with demons who impersonate them. This is soundly condemned in the Bible. Look at these two warnings. Leviticus 1931 warning to Israel. Do not turn to mediums or seek out spirits for you will be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God and also in Deuteronomy 18. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire that was another pagan religious practice who practices divination or sorcery that's what the two kinds we just talked about interpret or interpret humans engages in witchcraft or cast spells or who is a medium or spiritists or who consults the dead. Okay. That's a pretty broad range of occulting activities and spiritism is a part of that. Now I want to make the point that again as I've already said a medium or a spiritist does not contact the departed person. They actually are in touch with demons who control who can sort with the medium and they impersonate the people who are being sought. You say well how can they impersonate the dead? Well how do you think how do you think a demon can impersonate a dead person? No information about their life mimic their voice. How can a demon do that? They're around us a lot. Okay. Bill. They've been around since that person was around and they're all the place they have observed watch listen they've seen they know they and they can pool their information. Okay. It's not like every demon has to have this information they can pool their information so that really it's not a far stretch at all to imagine that demons would be able to find out or know detailed personal information family connections. Things that you know the appealing thing about say ounces and mediums and spiritists and so forth is to try to find out something that only the family would know or nobody else would know. And that's supposed to give them their credentials well that's just crazy demons know all that stuff. And so they're not contacting dead people they're not contacting the spirits of dead people they're in touch with demons and that is a very serious thing. Now one of the ways we know that is that story in first Samuel 28 so let's take a few minutes and look at that story first Samuel 28. The story of Saul seeking out the witch of indoor to try to bring Samuel back and hear from Samuel the prophet. I remember Samuel had died Saul has already been rejected as king and he's desperate he knows he's facing the Philistines well let's just begin reading verse three of for Samuel 28. Now Samuel was dead and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Rama. Saul had expelled the mediums and spiritists from the land. The Philistines assembled and came up and came and set up a camp at Shunam while Saul gathered all the Israelites and set up camp at Gabela. When Saul saw the Philistine army he was afraid terror filled his heart he inquired of the Lord but the Lord did not answer him by dreams or earring or prophets. The earring and thumming were the two stones that the high priest had which gave Israel guidance evidently kind of a yes and no kind of guidance. God was not answering Saul. God had already rejected Saul. So look at what he does in verse seven. Saul then said to his attendants find me a woman who is a medium so I may go and inquire of her. There is one in indoor they said. So Saul disguised himself putting on other clothes and at night he and two men went to the woman. Consult a spirit for me he said and bring up for me the one I name. But the woman said to him surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spirits from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death? Saul swore to her by the Lord as surely as the Lord lives you will not be punished for this. Then the woman said who shall I bring up for you? Bring up Samuel. He said. Now why do you think Saul wanted to talk to Samuel or Samuel's department of spirit? Why do you think you want to talk to him to get advice? Okay. He's not getting it any other way is he? God's not speaking to him in any other way. Samuel was the prophet of Israel who in the earlier years of Saul's reign they worked together. And so he's making a last desperate attempt to get guidance from Samuel and is willing to even reach beyond the grave to try to bring Samuel back. And this is what happens. Verse 12. When the woman saw Samuel she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul why have you deceived me? You are Saul. Now this this medium this which was scared spitless when God actually allowed Samuel to come back. She wasn't expecting that. Why it never happened before she was expecting to work with her familiar spirit. Another name the Bible uses for demons. A demon that kind of is in cohort with a spiritist or medium and works to to provide her the information she seeks. That's what she was expecting. And she knew who she normally worked with and she knew this was not the demon. She knew this was actually Samuel. So she knew she had been doop deceived. She recognizes now this is Saul. The king said to her verse 13 don't be afraid what do you see the woman said I see a spirit coming out of the ground. What does he look like he asked an old man wearing a robe is coming up she said then Saul knew it was Samuel and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face at the ground. Now if we go on and read the rest of the story Samuel says why did you do this Saul and Saul said I'm on to find out what's going to happen in this battle. Samuel actually delivers God's message to Saul of judgment and tells him you will lose the battle and you and your sons will be dead by this time tomorrow. He actually says you will be here with me. So obviously what we've going on here what we've got going on here is something entirely different than what normally happened. The witch herself was shocked at what she was hearing and seeing. Now the only way you can explain this is that in this occasion God allowed Samuel to actually speak to Saul to deliver his message of judgment. Why he did that that's his prerogative. I'm not here to question God or why he would do anything that's his prerogative. But he evidently used this means to deliver his message of judgment to Saul but it was obviously not what the medium was used to. She was absolutely shocked when it happened. So that gives us indication that that spiritist mediums so forth do not contact the actual dead person or their spirit. They're working with a demon that provides them information and may even mimic the person that is trying to be contacted by the individual who's come. Well there are lots of other manifestations of the occult levitation, telekinesis, the moving of objects in space, apparitions, visions and dreams and so forth lots of different kinds of evidences of the occult. But the Bible condemns them all so don't get involved that's basically what the Bible is saying. It's a trap. It's a trap of Satan to get you enmeshed in demonic influence. So don't don't get involved in that kind of thing at all. Okay comment or question before we kind of move quickly through some other areas. Yes. Gina. Yes. That's why it's different. It came from God. Gina is asking there seems like a fine line between what we're describing as divination and the earring and thuming those two stones that God used to give guidance. There are a couple of things going on there. First of all, God does miraculously work and specifically in the Old Testament before his word was recorded. He used very visible means to communicate his will and lots of different ways. He used visions and dreams in the Old Testament. God miraculously provides guidance and miraculously does miracles and powerful things. Satan only imitates. Satan always tries to imitate what God does. So his imitation is much different than the real article. And basically the way most Bible students and scholars believe the earring and thuming work, there were two stones and it was a yes or no answer and one of them evidently would light up. There's no indication in the Bible exactly how to happen. But that's what most believe something like that happened. One was a yes. One was a no when you asked guidance. God would indicate yes or no. Again, the reason why God used those kinds of means is because number one, his word was not completed yet. And number two, his people were in the infancy of their relationship with him and they needed more external assurances. But primarily has to do with the fact that his word was not completed yet. So they didn't know. They couldn't turn to the Bible and get guidance or understand a lot about God. So it was a very simple means of communicating yes or no to them. Very different from Satan's imitations. It's a great question. Good point. Yeah. Yeah, I think I can't think of any evidence or any instance of the top of my head where as John said in in the Bible when God communicated through dreams or visions. Those people were not seeking that information. God just began to communicate to them in that way. You take Daniel, for instance, and other prophets. It's not like they were they were looking through some means or object or person to reach to the other side. They just went sleep that night or they were in the middle of an activity and God gave them a vision. It was just God crashing in and supernaturally providing them that information. It's a good good distinction. They were not looking to move into that realm of the unknown God simply communicated to them. Okay. Other questions. Yes, Bill. Wow. That's a tough one. Did everybody hear what Bill's asking? Okay. Bill's asking what about all these stories about people who've died? And felt like they went to heaven and saw the relatives or saw heaven and described as a lot of real flurry of those kind of stories, books, movies, and so forth. And that's a difficult subject. There are lots of ways to go with that. Number one. The bottom line is we do not base what we believe on experience. That's that's the thing we have to keep in mind most of all. No matter what someone says they have experienced, I'm not going to base what I believe on that. I'm not necessarily going to question everybody's experience. Somebody may have genuinely had that experience. And it's not my right necessarily question that. But I'm not going to base what I believe about heaven on what they saw. The only credible information we have about heaven is in the Bible. And that's what God's communicated to us. The other thing to keep in mind is there can be physiological or psychological reasons for those who are not in heaven. For those kinds of occurrences that have to do with the operation of the mind and the body when someone is near death. That's always an option to keep in mind. The third option is Satan can mimic and imitate anything God does. I remember back in the 70s when this all first came to light and Elizabeth Kubler Ross who was a medical doctor wrote a book. Life after death I believe or something like that. And it was a hit, a real sensation. And she described from her experience and she had studied this a lot. All kinds of people from all kinds of different religious backgrounds, different world religions and some who were atheists and had no religion at all experiencing the same thing. The same kind of manifestation of the light, tunnel, peace, feeling of calmness. And so that ought to tell us a lot. If people who were even atheists didn't believe in God were experiencing the same thing, then that ought to tell us that we ought to at least admit the possibility that Satan can mimic and deceive people in the thinking they're okay because they supposedly have seen the other side. That is very dangerous. Again, I would not discount everybody's experience. I've read about the little burpo boy having this for real. I've read that book. I've read Don, what's his name? The Southern Baptist pastor, 90 minutes in heaven. I've read that book mostly because some of you wanted me to figure out what was going on. So I've read those books. I understand I'm not, I'm not going to say I will discount everybody's story. Some people may have genuinely experienced those kind of things. I'm not saying they're frauds, but I am saying better not based what you believe on those things. Yes, there have been some very credible people who have written of those kinds of experiences and I'm not saying they're all wrong or frauds or whatever. I'm just saying we have to be careful because Satan can imitate what God does and thus deceive people who have no belief system at all into thinking they're okay. And then the bottom line, this is the real clincher for me. Don't build your theology on experience. That goes across the board for everything. We don't build what we believe on people's experience or my experience. Remember what Peter said in second Peter one about the return of Christ. He said, he said, we saw Jesus on the mountain, mountain of transfiguration. We saw him with our own eyes. We heard the voice from heaven. This is my beloved son in whom I'm well pleased. He's saying we experienced all this with our eyes and ears. We saw it, we experienced it. And then he said, but there is a more sure word of prophecy. And then he goes on to talk about holy men of old spakers ever moved by the Holy Spirit. And what he's saying there is I remember I saw what he'll look like, but I'm not putting my confidence in what he looked like and what I saw and experience. I'm putting it in the word of God. There's a more sure word of prophecy. So Peter gives us the right approach to all of this. Put what you believe you're stuck in the Bible and don't necessarily discount everybody's experience, but just kind of nod and say, well, that's wonderful. But I'm not going to base what I believe on that. That is a very hot topic and a great question in this regard. What you had a question as well. Yes. Yes. An angel appeared to him in a dream. Both to warning to leave Bethlehem and then to tell him it was okay to go back, but not to go back to Bethlehem. Yeah. Okay. Good point. What are the questions? Faith healers? Wow. This is a whole different area of theology here. God gave the apostles the ability to heal people to speak, to have contact with them, even access. They touched the handkerchief of and have some evangelist gone wild with that. But we have to understand those were what Paul calls in 2 Corinthians 12, 12, the signs of an apostle. Miracles and sign gifts and wonders were the signs of an apostle, which means this. It means that they were especially God-given miracles to serve as the credentials of the apostles who were just getting the church off the ground. They were laying the foundation for the church in the book of Acts. It was clearly a miraculous gift given to them. And there were a lot of them, not only the ability to heal, the ability to speak in languages they never study, which is the biblical gift of tongues. And some other miraculous sign gifts, those were all for a particular purpose and a particular time. And when the apostles died out, so did those gifts. Those miraculous sign gifts. Now does that mean God doesn't heal? No. God does heal. God still supernatural heals people. He just does not do it through faith healers because that was a gift designed for the apostles. And there's a lot more to that that I can't get into. I taught a 32 hour class at ABC, a master's class on spiritual gifts. And we spent a whole day, eight hours on this topic of the sign gifts. And there's a whole lot to get into there that obviously we've got one more minute. We don't have time to. But it's that's the bottom line. And then there's a whole other reason for the gift of tongues, little different. But the gift of tongues was God's sign of judgment on Israel, according to first Corinthians 14, 21 and 22. God's sign of judgment on Israel because of the rejection of the Messiah. And he goes back, quote from Isaiah 28, where, where Israel was judged in their captivity. They were sent to Babylon, where they couldn't understand the tongue. They were hearing speech that we're hearing as a sign of judgment and Paul quotes that says that's what tongues are for. So those kind of miraculous gifts had a limited time and a limited purpose. They're not for today. They're just not for today. But God still heals. God is, God is sovereign. And if he wants to heal somebody, he can. I think we've all heard stories of what we can only explain is God's miraculous touch of healing. But he does not do it through faith healers. I don't believe. I believe that was limited to the apostles. Satan does have the ability to heal. Yeah, he can inflict physical illnesses and he can heal. He will in the tribulation time. He'll be anacryst. He's got more power than we do. And he mimics what God does. He does work miracles. I mean, that's what second that's loneliness. Two, nine says he has the ability to do all kinds of miracles. But God is not giving those gifts to people today. Not the miraculous sign gifts. Okay, Carolyn. Yeah, and it all has to do with who the apostles were and what their ministry was. And I know there are people who still say there are apostles today, but not according to the definition of act one when they chose an apostle to replace Judas, they said, okay, the qualifications are you have to have been with Jesus in his ministry and you have to have seen him ascend to heaven. There's nobody around today that fits those qualifications. And so that's the misunderstanding is who are the apostles and what was their purpose and the limited time frame in which God gave those those miraculous gifts to serve as their credentials for their ministry. That's what that's all about. And you're exactly right. It's taking something that was intended for a brief period of time in the Bible and making universal and saying it's for us today. And it wasn't. It wasn't. Not if you understand the meaning of an apostle and the purpose of their ministry and the whole concept of sign gifts. And there are so many other verses to bring in here. Hebrews 2 verses 3 and 4. Mark 16 verses 17 and 18 that talk about the purpose of sign gifts was to confirm those who heard the word. And it's the word that is in him who heard Christ. Very clear. Well, times up. We've got to go and we'll have to talk a little bit more about the occult next week. Let's pray. Father, thank you for your word and the warnings that you give us about dabbling in the occult and seeking information about the future or beyond this life that you've not seen fit. We've not seen fit to give us. So father, we pray that we will be content with your revelation and your word and form what we believe on that and trust you by faith for what we don't know. Seeking your guidance for decisions that we need to make, trusting you to keep us close to you, but not not looking into the occult in any way. Keep us safe from that. We pray in Jesus name. Amen.